Hey guys,

I have a new player for this tournament. Pete Wallin, Space Marines.

Peacey-weace

Scooter, did you make flyers up?

there going to be at the meeting on tuesday I would like if the councle members were there to take them to there local stores and it's going to be a flyer with jan tournaments on it to.

okay excellent.

Can you provide a soft copy of the flier as well?

-Mike

Yeah if this can be emailed out that would be great. I can pass it around at Dream Wizards this week.

I also wrote up the tournament package today, which I will post as soon as I get home with a webhosting link or post here if the forums admins change the settings to allow it.

I third what Saint and ThatTauGuy said...

What setting are you having a problem with?

Here's the package on rapidshare, take a look at it, let me know if things are unclear.

http://rs634.rapidshare.com/files/314583563/Inner_Circle_Holiday_Beat_Down_Tournament_Package.pdf

Looks good.

Very very nicely done tournament package. Kudos. I am really excited to meet and play with you guys.

Thanks, I'll keep updating it as I notice errors and things that are unclear. I should have copies to hand out at tonight's meeting too (though the real version will be the day of version.)

5) b) c. v. (the section about drop pods) reads a bit awkwardly; to me , at least.

-Mike

make sure to SPELL OUT how units and their transports are counted for Kill Points and Objectives.

Thanks for posting this. I haven't been able to download this yet but in reference to the above question: Shouldn't the players declare what squads are combat squadding before we decide what will be kill points?

Like you have to say, OK this squad is going to be split in two, one with heavy bolter and one with melta. Then I choose kill points. Alright I want the one with Melta to count as a kill point and also that drop pod over there but not the marines inside.

Cool. done.

It seems backward to declare kill points and then decide what squad will combat squad. Same with Guard.

Especially since the decision to combat squad is done at deployment. Do drones tha disembark of of destroyed devilfish be counted as well?

I asked about Tau Drones and Devilfish earlier. Tau Drones can be selected as kill point units separate from the Devilfish.
So that's 3 easy kill points in my army.

These are all good catches, and the reason I asked you guys to review it.

My intention was to suggest this logic:

If I have a full tactical squad in a drop pod and my opponent picks that squad as a kill point at the start of the game then I haven't decided whether or not to combat squad them as that will depend on if they arrive first turn, off reserve and if they scatter into a different location, etc. I think the trade off between the opponent not being sure about how the squad will deploy is balanced by the tactical decision the drop-podding player has to make about relative to the assignment of kill points. Remember too, at least as I conceived it, the opponent (the one who originally selected the podding squad) is also the one that decides which of the two combat squads to make the kill point.

If I'm missing some way that's really unbalanced let me know, otherwise I'll just clear up the language to make my intent more obvious. i think drop-podding marines are the only case of a squad being able to split up like that in mid-game.

@ThatTauGuy

Your interpretation is correct (though reasonable people can disagree I'll rule it as described), and I will indicate that more clearly in the 'FAQ' portion of the write-up.

I think the tactical decision about splitting or not is important enough to not force a Marines player to make it earlier than the rules otherwise require.

I hadn't considered the guard case, I think you'd assign KP AFTER the decision to blob or not blob the squad and I'll clarify that in the write up as well.

With all due respect, Avatar 8481, I see a problem, in game, with the above. Marine players have to decide about combat squading units during deployment, not mid-game when you're unit comes in from reserve. So you can't decide to combat squad the unit as it comes out of a drop pod.

In regards to kill point allocation:

Take this scenario. A Guard Player has an infantry platoon of 35 guys that can be split into three ten man squads and one command squad or he can field it as a single unit of 35 men. Now how I am supposed to decide which units to make as killpoints before he decides what to do wth them? If I choose one of the ten man squads before he decides how it will be deployed, he can clump that unit together into 35 men, which makes is really hard to destroy (combined with cover, going to ground and the guard order "hit the dirt"). On the flip side, if I choose the 35 man unit as the kill point and he splits it up, I now have to kill four squads instead of one to get the kill point.


Same with marines. If I choose the ten-man tact squad. you can split it into and then hide one of them the entire game denying the chance to get a kill point. or if I choose the combat squad then you just put them together in one unit, how does that work?

My point is this: to avoid any of the above confusion, problems, arguments, please, let's have players assign the kill points after the player has decided which units will split and which will not.

@Tauguy
I agree, otherwise it's going to be way to easy to cheese or exploit. It's not perfect but if its clear early on it's just another tactical factor to keep in mind when deploying and playing. If you want to combat squad, do it at your own risk... Atleast it's only X number of kill points, vs a kill point PER 1/2 of the combat squad.

i agree it only makes since to do it that way. pick your kill points after the players have dicided what to do with them.

Both.
You decide, during deployment, if you are going to combat squad.
The sole exception to this is when the unit is deploying via drop pod, you choose as they disembark from the drop pod. [Codex: Space Marines; Page 51]



-Mike

mike your a real saint

In which case I'm inclined to let it stand as stated, as it preserves that tactical choice for the pod-user without penalizing the opponent (by say prohibiting them from selecting the unit entirely).

Hopefully we're clear though that Pods are the only exception, as normal all Combat Squading or Guard blobbing is done prior to both deployment AND selection of kill points.

@scooter: we need to be able to make a rimshot noise on the boards.

I'll work on that

There exist a few other oddities...

Chaos can turn models into Spawn, could these preemptively be assigned?
Tomb Syders can manufacture Scarabs, Biovores can "manufacture" spore mine units, etc...

Are we assuming that models that do not exist during deployment cannot be used as kill points?

-Mike

I agree, units that are generated mid-game can't be selected as kill points.

We need to be very clear about when kill point selection happens. 1) Decide combat squads 2) selected kill points 3) roll for deployment and first turn 4) deploy 5) scout moves 6) seize the intiative roll

With Pods and kill-point allocation, I think we're giving pod armies a huge tactical advantage over all other armiies in regards to kill-points. however, I'm fine with it. drop pods have their own disadvantages that I think will out-weigh the benefit we're granting them in this case.

Question: transports can be kill points right?

Guys, I cannot download that file. can someone email it to me at

timandlucka at gmail dot com

Yes transports can be kill points. Your timeline is accurate and I'll codify it.

My feeling was the any benefit inured to the Pod-player was weighed against the fragility of a 5 man squad. Not that they're exactly equal, but that it was a reasonable compromise.

The pod itself might be an easier target...

-Mike

I'd assume in almost any case the opponent is picking the pod regardless. AV 10 open topped. With a big "Kill me please" sign on it?

:-)

right, I was thinking about trukks.

Thanks for sending the PDF guys!

Should be an awesome tourney!

Hey guys, I got another player to register.

Mark Ferek, bringing it with the Tau Empire!

Thanks!

Ok people i just started to hand out the flyers. we need a couple more players to book the event here are the names of the players we have.

Please add a friend of mine \/
Zack Goldsmith
Orkz

Yo I have questions about the rules for claiming objectives. Here is the section I am confused about:

"At the end of the game the objective will be ‘claimed’ by the player with both the following:
1. At least 1 TROOP unit with at least one model within 3” of the base edge of the objective marker. The TROOP unit must be the unit itself and not any dedicated transport selected with the unit (though unoccupied transports may still contest objectives as per base rule-book).
2. The higher total number of units with at least one model within 3” of the base edge of the objective marker where each unit or vehicle counts as 1 point, transports of all kinds count as 1 point and units which are TROOPS worth one additional point (2 total). E.g. A unit of tactical marines in a rhino counts as 3 points for purposes of securing objectives, while a squadron of Piranhas"

My questions:
Can a unit of troops embarked in a transport claim an objective?

Why does a space marine tactical squad embarked in a rhino count as 3 points when I only count 2 points here (the unit and the vehicle)? In that token, a piranha unit should count as two points (the drones embarked in the piranha and the piranha).

Why even have the second part of these rules? Why do we need to these points? Why not make it simply by just counting objectives claimed or not claimed (contested or not being held by troops)?

@ ThatTauGuy:

Squad +1, Vehicle +1, Squad is "Troops" +1 for a total of three.

Sure, Pirahnas can be 2 since we're playing the drones as an embarked squad.

Yes, just liek regular rules, troops in a vehicle can claim objectives.

The extra part is to discourage late game drop-pod blasting objectives just to contest them and skimmer objective contesting shenanigans. Make 'Troops" more important, which I think is a nice effect.

Gotcha thanks for the explanation. peace.

Please add PJ Brady and his "Space Angels".
(Dark Angels using Codex: Space Marines)

-Mike

1) Jason Sadilek; Tyranids
2) Alex Weidelr; Chaos Daemons
3) Chuck Clynes; Blood Angels
4) brent; ultar marines
5) Matthew LeBaron; Imperial Guard
6) tim; Orks
7) Mike; Marien's- or eldar
8 ) josh; ? we need to know josh
9) Matt Stanley; Spess Mehrens
10) James Rome; space wolves
11) Pierre Daze; Eldar
12) Tim; Tau Empire
13) Justin C; Imperial guard
14) Dameon; CSM's
15) Ryan Holliday; Imperial Guard
16) Brandon; Necron's
17) Steve Schaffer; Daemonhunters
18) Marc Smith; The Woodland Rangers "Space Marines"
19) Andrew Bailey; Counts-as Imperial Guard
20) Mike Somerville: Eldar
21) Nick Ditizio: Space Wolves
22) Mark Ferek, Tau Empire
23) PJ Brady, Space Angels
24) Ken Lacy, Sisters
25) Thomas Jackson, Space Marines
26) Leigh Brady, Chaos Space Marines

I have decided that I shall use my Imperial Guard instead.

So you all are telling me no one is playing Sisters of battle. Dose no one know anyone who will play sisters this is just no good no good at all.

Hey all

Thanks to Mike Somerville for telling me about this tournament. I'm planning on bringing Sisters of Battle. I don't get to play (or paint) much these days, so they'll probably be an amazing shade of uniform grey primer, with some older paint schemes mixed in :p

Looking forward to gaming with y'all soon.

-Ken Lacy

saweet a sisters player i love it