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 What exactly makes Daemons broken?

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BrianF

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PostSubject: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Fri Sep 04, 2009 1:55 am

So what are you opinions on what makes Daemons broken?

Is it
Named characters
Undercoasted units
Mono god armies
Poly god armies

I don't really see many people playing them at the bunker. I am not sure if it is because those people have been taken out back an beaten or that they are such a pain in the ass to put together.

I will say I have a daemon army (mostly assembled), but I suck at WFB so I am not a threat. I mainly got them because I was tired of night goblin randomness.

My army is mainly khorne/tzeentch. The tzeentch got thrown in because of my fear of 20+ power dice armies and who doesn't like painting pink and purple army men?
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Lincoln

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Sun Sep 06, 2009 10:06 pm

Horrors and Flamers. Period. End of Story.
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waffle

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 1:34 am

Its not so much one unit but it is the simple fact that alot of things written in the army book ignore BRB rules. Another pont to make is that Matt Ward is not really qualified to make a sandwich let alone write an entire WHFB Army book all by his lonsome. This is a guy who comes from the LOTR series and has probably played next to NO fantasy, but somehow he is writing fantasy books?! One example, Horrors should not be 3's across the board. Horror should die quickly if they ever get caught up in close combat. Example number two, Ummmmm.....THE ENTIRE ARMY HAS A WARD SAVE! One word comes to mind in that statement. NOOOOOO!!!!!!! While 40kers out there might feel whats the big deal with that you have to remember that wounds come less often in fantasy because the game itself is not as speed dice rolling intense as 40k. Combine that with the multi save rules of fantasy and Deamons can basically put core units on the that take combined efforts to crush. Those kinda tactics are really for an armies elite units. Number three, Papa Nurgle is the fastest character in the game(right there with a WE lord)....why? A WE lord can give ASL because he is (T)3 and has no armor to defend himself with. Papa Nurgle has 10 wounds at (T)6 himself, causes d6 wounds and auto wounds with (S)6/7. Why in the BLUE HELL would Papa Nurgle need to give everyone in B2B ASL? I could go on and on but I will stop here.....in the end all books should be competitive. Its tooo bad the GW has eliminated "play testing" from their vocabulary but maybe in the future they will get back on track and correct this come 8th Ed.

~Brian
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vonjankmon

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 8:40 am

Fantasy has always been like this though, well Chaos at least. As far back as I can remember two things have always been true about Fantasy, the army balance is always a joke, and Chaos is always the leader on why army balance is a joke.

It's never been any different unless you want to count the couple month periods of time where the Chaos army book is at it's oldest right before they get a new one, then from time to time some other army has been more powerful, but it's rare.
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BrianF

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 9:48 am

They all have ward saves, but remember no one gets an armor save unless it is through a mount or magic items.

To be honest the original reason I picked up daemons was because pissed that vampire counts basically ignored a whole section of the book (psychology) so I wanted any army that did that too, but every one seemed to already have vampire counts so daemons were it. I always liked khorne so I started with that but found out that mono khorne is not the best, I needed the dispel dice, and hey why not go with the troops that give you them plus have like a 4+ ward save with a herald.

I guess it does not matter, I have already put my unassembled daemons on eBay. If you ask for a game people say sure, then just get pissed if they are daemons. Of course I think it is funny that the people that seem to whine the most are the ones playing the T2 armies (DE, VC, Lizzy)

I guess I will go back to my T3 High Elves, and listen to people !@#$ about Teclis or two dragons.
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scooter

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 10:46 am

Brian I love you but daemons ignore psychology to. And for the record there are no other broken lists out there that can tack on any army including daemons. People need to give it a rest. I'm playing VC Saturday and I probably will end up playing a daemon army, and I'll beet them. Play your daemons all you want just stay away from supper cheesy stuff like 23 power dice in 2250, or as many flamers as you can get. There isn't 1 character in that book that is UN beatable. Unlike all the books GW sales there is no real way to make a flawless lord. It's the troops that you pick that make daemons gay. Flamer’s horrs hounds beast of nurgle. That’s the problem with the book not the chicken or a blood thirstier, troops. Brian don't sell you daemons play them find your balance.

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BrianF

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 4:15 pm

At this point I don't think it matters what kind of daemon lists people take. The other guy will just think he is playing a douche regardless.

I know they ignore psychology, that is one reason why I got them. I wanted to be cool like the VC guys.

My Juggernaughts are already sold, I think those are the only thing that are not on the "cheese" list that I owned. I can invest more in my Night Goblins it is fun to see people !@#$ about fanatics in a an army that has horrible leadership, fear elves, and 33% you don't have control over their movement.
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Lucian

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:02 pm

I know next to nothing about fantasy but dont let me people scare you out of playing something you think is cool. It's like the circle of life. Every book GW makes has to be a little better than the last in order to sell, otherwise who the hell would buy it? Daemons apparently are a tough list. Eventually though something will come along that makes them the runner up. So enjoy while your at the top of the heap, revel in it, laugh at people and beat them with ease. It won't last forever, then it will be someone else's turn. Shrug. After all it's just a game mate and nothing is stopping them from buying a Daemon army either.

Another thing. They're Daemons. Physical manifestations of evil, they should be hard to beat. Otherwise it wouldn't be fluffy.
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chinsquaz

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:38 pm

a heavy shooting army shred daemons. even though they all have a ward its only 5+ for the most part and other than nurgle they are not very tough. tha all tzeench lists with karios and scribs is cheezy but like chester cheeta said it aint eazy being cheezy. when skaven come out i beat everyone will complain about them as well.
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scooter

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PostSubject: Re: What exactly makes Daemons broken?   Thu Sep 17, 2009 10:51 am

brian play daemons in tournaments or in silly campains. find you balance. I just ask that you stay away from to 24 power dice with 2 groups of 6 flamer in 2250.

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