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 just a thought for people who field NON painted armies

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Big Rob



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PostSubject: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 2:01 am

As I sat in my hobby room tonight,and started to build and paint 3 fortified manor's for june 5th.I thought about when i first started going to gw in laurel mall.Rules were 3 colors and based to play in shop.Now i understand people choose not to paint armies and just field the "greys",but why then do those who choose not to paint,think they should be able to play on a fully painted table with painted terrain?shops and clubs go out of there way to provide painted tables,the least you can do is slap a color or two on your minis with some sand on the base.It's starting to really bother me that I'm going to go through the trouble and time to paint a bunch of terrain just to see it covered in grey plastic.Maybe tables with no grass or hills and soda cans for building should be provided for those who choose NOT to paint.My thought is if you dont can how your army looks why should you care if your table is painted and flocked or has terrain on it.I will only every field fully painted and based armies out of respect for the store or club that provided the fully painted tables to play on. that's just my opinion I could be wrong
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Sorrow

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 2:20 am

I have a few reasons...

first!

painting is tedious. really. really tedious. A lot of my stuff is painted, because frankly i think its a little embarrassing to throw down the "greys" opposite someone like Dameon. On the other hand, a lot of my stuff isn't, simply because i don't wish to spend 3 hours hunched over a table, killing my back, trying to make my models look good enough for some arbitrary standard.

and also

I care a lot more about tactics and building a strong or fun or interesting army list than i do about painting. It's just my preference, i prefer one aspect of the hobby more than another. In my spare time i'd rather be playing MW2 than painting, though recently i've been doing both at the same time ( i have talented toes)

but wait!

We spend a metric fuckton of money on this hobby. Like hell am I going to torture myself over the tedium any more than I want to.
[b]
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Big Rob



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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 2:40 am

Lol good call most of the time I'd rather be playing mag or battlefield 2.and yes I agree painting is a pain most of the time.but what meant by my post was more geared for tournaments
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mikhaila



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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 9:20 am

I think Rob's original post is of the sort "If you don't care to put the work in, why should I?", so the reply of "Painting is Tedious" just reinforces his belief that the work he is putting in is wasted on you, and you could care less. Hopefully Rob and other people working on the terrain for the tournament ignore you.)
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ecurb12

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 9:29 am

i started to agree with sorrow but then he mentioned MW2 so i lost interest
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scooter

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 9:41 am

We have finished about 40 age defense terrain pieces so far allot of work and about 20 bastions. Allot more work. After going to allot of fully painted and based tournaments I've come to relies that the quality of the gamer there is much better. Not because there army is fully painted, or even painted nice but because there are allot more prizes in those tournaments, then in non fully painted and based.

Pros to fully painted tournaments

1) Bigger prizes
2) Sense of achievement
3) bragging rights
4) You can go to every tournament
5) You have completed the hobby

After all this game isn't meant to be played in the grey legion, the Premiered legion, or in the incomplete legion.

I know allot of you don't have time to paint. This is for the people that are to lassie to just sit down and paint.

And just so some self riches turd doesn’t get on here and list the Negatives to painting an army I’ll do it for you.

1) It tacks time.

So dose pooing but you find time for that don't you.


Have a great day. Scooter

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 10:21 am

I'm literally speechless.

Several reasonable solutions to the painting/non-painting issue:

1) Painted armies pay less to play in tournaments (my favorite)
2) Painted armies can win door prizes that unpainted armies can't
3) Painting score is used a tiebreaker
4) Some tournaments are only open to painted armies
5) Painted armies receive 'in-game' benefits
6) Painted armies can win overall, non-painted can't
7) Painted armies start in top bracket of players, non-painted can't.

and many others.
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Martin

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 10:22 am

Before anyone replies to scooter, I just want to say it's NOT COOL to moan just because someone spells a few words wrong.

Having said that.
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scooter

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 10:34 am

hey i spell check everything now. i don't word check thou cheers

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Sorrow

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 11:23 am

I'm of the opinion that warhammer is a hobby with many aspects. If one person enjoys one aspect less than another, who should force him to spend more time doing what he doesn't like doing?

you think "painting takes time" is a lame excuse, but to do a fine job, it takes hours upon hours to paint up an army that I'm just going to play with once every couple months or so. Then every so often GW comes out with a new unit or a new set of rules and suddenly i must have something else... So back to the tedium. The blood angels codex is a great example. Before it, i had like 10 assault marines. Now I've got about 30, because suddenly, they're great. So all those tactical marines i bought and spent hours on are now out of style, i must spend more time painting something else? yeah right. I got sick of that vicious circle a while ago.


How about a deal. I'll paint my toy soldiers how and when I want, if at all, and you can paint yours how and when you want.


Note: devil's advocate.
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scooter

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 11:27 am

lol

If painting isn't your thing then that peson shouldn't be taking allot of time on there army should they. So the hours and hours thing is dismissed. If you don't want to paint cause you feel like your not good at it. Then you know you can't play in fpfb tournaments. As long as your ok with this then thats fine with me.

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Sorrow

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 11:33 am

scooter wrote:
lol

If painting isn't your thing then that peson shouldn't be taking allot of time on there army should they. So the hours and hours thing is dismissed. If you don't want to paint cause you feel like your not good at it. Then you know you can't play in fpfb tournaments. As long as your ok with this then thats fine with me.

so... then we agree? i might be a little lost.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 11:45 am

No I think people "if painting isn't your thing" Shouldn't worry about the quality of their models and just put paint to model. The problem is there to lazy to even do that. I painted my dark elves because I wanted to play them in tournaments and now I’m doing my sisters. Would I rather play then paint YES. But I also would rather play in tournaments then casual games.

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 12:47 pm

hey maybe if you were not on this forum wasting time complaining about painting you could be painting!!! hahaha
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 1:42 pm

Now Josh you know we love to talk about things. I like to hear peoples point of view.

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mikhaila



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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 2:41 pm

Sorrow wrote:
If one person enjoys one aspect less than another, who should force him to spend more time doing what he doesn't like doing?
.

Works for me. Of course, my hobby is spending way to many hours making terrain, and then inviting people with fully painted armies to come play. So I won't force anyone to paint, but don't force me to let you play in my tournaments.)

And seriously, I've yet to really meet someone that doesn't have time to paint. Lots of people that don't want to paint, or want to do other things besides painting, but no one who literally doesn't have the time.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 3:53 pm

To actually play devil's advocate and take the argument to the extreme. Given the shifting tastes in which models are effective/use-able, why buy the models at all? Just buy the bases, or cut them out of cardboard and write, "assault marine" on it.

This is particularly possible in fantasy, where the actual models are irrelevant and the only issue is the frontage, facing and unit strength. 40k is a little less so, but given the number of times I've seen players just pile orc mobs on the table and push them around like piles of craps chips I'd say even 40k could be reasonably played without the models.

Warmachine/FOW, all minis games have this 'problem'. The only reason to participate in the hobby is for reasons that are not strictly related to gameplay, people either like to paint, or they don't, they like to make terrain, or not, or they just like to have unpainted models and the bare minimum to play in competitive events, or not.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Thu May 06, 2010 5:28 pm

or go play AT-43 - models are cool and they're all pre-painted!
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 5:56 am

Ah the eternal everyone should play the game my way argument. This will end well I just know it. Rolling Eyes

How about everyone just participate in the hobby the way they want and if you do not want to play someone because their army is not fully painted or because it is, well it is a free country and you can choose to politely decline a game against them. Everyone would be a lot happier if they just adopted the live and let live philosophy on life.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 9:31 am

I'm all for that as long as no one complains when we start holding painted req tournaments.

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 9:32 am

I think scooter missed the point of your post.
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Martin

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 9:43 am

avatar8481 wrote:
I think scooter missed the point of your post.

I think he was coming from Robs perspective of putting in the effort to run the tournament and have everything look great, rather than the general painted vs non-painted joint which I *think* has been raised once before.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 9:43 am

I didn't I'm just letting people know that this is coming. That in bigger tournaments with bigger prizes. Your army needs to be fully painted that’s just the order of things. People in this area live in a cesium of crap were for too long the bunker and we would hold tournaments that didn't req fully painted armies. That’s fine to not have fully painted army I have about 5 non painted armies. But you should have at least one for tournaments you want to play in.

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Big Rob



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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 12:23 pm

THANK YOU MARTIN!!!!! that is my point. I could care less if people dont like/cant/dont have time, to paint their armies and I dont mind playing these people in fun games at the bunker or wherever.When its not a pay to play tournament who cares!!! lets have fun painted on the table or not.BUT when its pay to play tournament and the club or shop puts the effort to make the tables,just rattlecan your minis one color or prime and wash them who cares how they look,and that would take like 30 minutes max
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 12:32 pm

Here's a few suggestions for those who don't want to paint but would like to do the fpfb tournaments:

paintedfigs.com
bluetablepainting.com
and even cheaper
armypainter which has products to easily dip your minis.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 1:05 pm

Also for you folks who do not like to paint there is the Army Painter Method of painting, where you use colored primers and washes to quickly complete your army. When you are at the store, ask about it and I will show you a demo.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 1:06 pm

It's true, spray and dip is super easy.

Also a great way to apply cologne and meet girls.
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Martin

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 1:15 pm

avatar8481 wrote:
It's true, spray and dip is super easy.

Also a great way to apply cologne and meet girls.

Must you turn the internet into a house of lies, Michael?
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 1:49 pm

It works for the 'Situation' and other fine fellows of "The Jersey Shore".
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Fri May 07, 2010 1:57 pm

i do love those jersey girls I love you

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sat May 08, 2010 7:18 pm

I think this is what confusing me. Spray painting all of your models a single color and then dipping them makes people happy but an unpainted army upsets them? So looking at Green/Red/Yellow models that look like they were rained on is less upsetting than looking at gray models? To each their own but I think I'm missing something here. Is gray THAT offensive of a color?
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sat May 08, 2010 7:26 pm

vonjankmon wrote:
I think this is what confusing me. Spray painting all of your models a single color and then dipping them makes people happy but an unpainted army upsets them? So looking at Green/Red/Yellow models that look like they were rained on is less upsetting than looking at gray models? To each their own but I think I'm missing something here. Is gray THAT offensive of a color?

It's a bit more than a spray and dip. It works very good for some armys. For example, I had a friend do his Warriors of chaos very quickly. Spray knights and warriors in red for the Khrone marked guys, ble for tzeench. Horses in brown. Drybrushed very quickly with large brush some metallics. Dipped the whole army. Hit it with dullcote. After that, it was decent looking on the table. He could take time to pick out banners and champions, but it was playable at that point.

Gray armies are fine. Unless the tournament they want to play in requires them to be painted. At that point each person makes a choice to use a painted army, or not play. Option C: Complain, is possible in addition to which ever you decide.)
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 12:24 am

I will say the grey armies offend me. I own lots of armies, hardly any are completely painted, but I at least try to makes some kind of progress. Sure I have 100 black primmered boyz, but by god that 1 trukk at least has some color on it.

I think some of the complainers keep thinking this is a game and not a hobby. If I wanted a game I am sure I can go find some Hero Clixs some place.

My take is please at least look like you are making an effort. People will actually complement you when you have added 1 color to you army each tournament. The excuse of no time is BS. I have mutiple battlewagons almost done because I took 10-15 minutes to sit down and do quick base coats/dry brushing on. The boyz will take me longer, but thank god they number less then 200 on my current list.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 2:08 am

If you think time is no excuse, then stop being so self righteous and close minded. I usually field mostly painted armies, today was an exception as i just started building Blood Angels this last week.. but some people have a lot of things going on in... you know... life. Maybe it's just the timing in this thread, but between all the other things going on in life (including things like finals for some college students here), demanding that someone dedicates time to something is just plain wrong.

Quote :
I think some of the complainers keep thinking this is a game and not a hobby. If I wanted a game I am sure I can go find some Hero Clixs some place.

because the two are mutually exclusive, right? If someone prefers the gaming and tactical aspect of the game, who do you think they are to tell them that they are doing it wrong? Are they a lesser person, somehow, for having different preferences?

To wrap it up, unless you know for a fact that there are no outside factors that might keep a person from painting their army, then step off their junk. The assumptions and "higher than thou" mentality is just rude.


Quote :
Gray armies are fine. Unless the tournament they want to play in requires them to be painted. At that point each person makes a choice to use a painted army, or not play. Option C: Complain, is possible in addition to which ever you decide.)

bam. absolutely agreed.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 12:22 pm

i am in college and i still have time to paint so you must be really really busy but I can promise you I have way more on my plate then you and i can still find some time to paint like I said before less time on the internet more time painting
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 3:04 pm

If you think you're busy in college wait until you own a house and start a family. Busy takes on a new meaning that frankly you can't appreciate yet.

I think this is the crux of this argument. Some people just can't imagine how someone could be to busy to paint. They figure,"Well I'm not to busy to paint and I can't imagine being that busy, so they just can't be that busy."

I think there are those of us that are in fact that busy. My IG are slowly being painted up, slowly because on a normal basis I just don't have time to sit and paint them. I have to plan around things just to get a few hours every once in a while and the same holds true for finding time to play a game. I try and juggle both, thus why I've played less than six 40k games in the last year. So I am not going to look down on, harass, or otherwise bother someone who instead of starting to paint their army up decided that they wanted to play 12 games in a year instead of 6.

Frankly the attitude should be: "Hey your entire army is painted, that's great!"

Instead of what it seems to be right now: "Your army isn't painted, are you lazy or something?"

Be positive about the painted armies and leave those people who can't quite find the time or hell just don't want to paint their armies alone. *YOUR* hobby is not everyone's. This *MY* hobby is the way it is mentality would be funny if it wasn't so sad, I just do not see why letting people do what they want is such a big deal. If you don't want to play a gray army, don't, and I would hope that no one would hold that against you.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 4:32 pm

people that are not full time D1 athetles, work, and students have no idea what busy is

sorry buddy

if I can find time to paint anyone can
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 4:51 pm

the "busy" argument has run it's course, i think. That argument has done nothing but solidify the "nonpainters" beliefs while defining those who don't think there is such a thing as "too busy."

Perhaps a reason for fielding the grey is that an army is a work in progress. This saturday i felt a little bit guilty fielding an incomplete silver, grey, and primer'd army, but hopefully those with lovely armies (Kieth and James), can understand that I use what little time i have to slowly assemble my army and that I haven't reached the painting stage just yet.

In case you were planning on using this argument: "Well maybe you should paint it up first before showing up to a tournament", i would answer this: It would be unwise to spend so much precious time and effort painting an army that you haven't playtested in friendly tournaments and games. What if your army turns out to suck? are you just going to attic all those freshly painted miniatures?
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 5:58 pm

Most people I game with play the army a dozen times while they are painting it, making small changes, and painting up more units than just the minimum units. Usually we end up with 2500 to 3000 points of a fantasy army. This never happens over night. Ludwig will knock out an army that big in a month, the rest of us might take 2 months to a year to get it all done up. Playtesting we do in friendly games, not tournaments. Except for 'ardboyz, we don't do non-painted at tournaments.
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 7:10 pm

I agree testing non-painted armies I understand that totally cause like you said who wants to paint up an entire army then it suck and not be what you wanted

but like mike said thats what practice games are for but if your only time to practice is a tournament then thats understandable as well,

I don't hate playing agaisnt people that don't have painted armies either its not that big of a deal, but when I go to a tournament I like playing against someone that has a painted army because its not only something to talk about but it makes the game look way cooler

and like scooter said fully painted tournaments normally have a bigger turnout and more prizes!!!
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 7:35 pm

Ok how about this,army painted or not.if you sign up to play in a tournament or pay to play in one,and when you got there all the tables were unflocked with unpainted plain foam hills and,unpainted buildings.would you be happy or enjoy your hobby as much?Or when you asked to shop or club hosting the tournament why is nothing painted they say "Oh paintings not my thing or sorry too busy" would you play again in anything they put on?
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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 7:55 pm

Big Rob wrote:
Ok how about this,army painted or not.if you sign up to play in a tournament or pay to play in one,and when you got there all the tables were unflocked with unpainted plain foam hills and,unpainted buildings.would you be happy or enjoy your hobby as much?Or when you asked to shop or club hosting the tournament why is nothing painted they say "Oh paintings not my thing or sorry too busy" would you play again in anything they put on?

Seen worse.) Imagine you show up, and someone threw 5 or six books on the table and tossed a green plastic tablecloth on top of them for 'intant scenery'. Forests are pieces of green paper that say 'trees'. Cardboard and straw buildings sprayed silver. Been a couple of decades since I played in a tournament with scenery that bad though.
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Lincoln

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 8:05 pm

I think I just had an epiphany. People who come to our tournaments with unpainted armies have to play on unpainted tables. LMAO would be so funny.


(this book is a hill, this book is a forest, here is some cardboard if you want more pieces, that plywood leaning against the wall is your table... Go for it!!)
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joko12

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 8:12 pm

seems fair to me
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mikhaila



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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 10:07 pm

Welcome to FLOORHAMMER!

Tape off 6' x 4' sections for the grey legions to play on. Many advantages. Never drop your dice. Spill your soda, call it a river. No scenery makes true line of sight a breeze.

And for Blob's Park: LAWNHAMMER! It's already green and flocked! And so natural looking!
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joko12

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Sun May 09, 2010 10:21 pm

used to play on the floor all the time back in the day haha
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Sorrow

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Mon May 10, 2010 12:52 am

Big Rob wrote:
Ok how about this,army painted or not.if you sign up to play in a tournament or pay to play in one,and when you got there all the tables were unflocked with unpainted plain foam hills and,unpainted buildings.would you be happy or enjoy your hobby as much?Or when you asked to shop or club hosting the tournament why is nothing painted they say "Oh paintings not my thing or sorry too busy" would you play again in anything they put on?

perhaps you can run a tournament with that rules. Enjoy your turnout. FrAG will continue to run tournaments where we don't give a %$@@ whether your army is fully painted or not (given you don't care about winning best painted or best overall)


edit: upon thinking about it, this thread seems like a threat to the non-painters. "You better paint your army, or i'll host a tournament where you have to play on the floor! i swear i'll do it!" mhmmm...
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Big Rob



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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Mon May 10, 2010 2:14 am

not at all, it's just a thought of if you dont paint your armies you should not mind playing on tables that are not painted.I mean if people dont paint cuz they are in to the tactics why care if your table is painted and if i understand you above post of"perhaps you can run a tournament with that rules. Enjoy your turnout."I guess you would not play in a tournament with out painted terrain if thats the case paint the army if its not already.and if people are that into the tactics of the game and winning then i would think they would want to paint so they could compete in major tournaments
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Sorrow

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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Mon May 10, 2010 2:50 am

So. by the same reasoning, should the quality of the paint job determine the quality of the terrain you get to play on? I barely have 3 colors on most of my models, do i play on styrofoam hills and wood block buildings? How do you determine the truly lazy from the truly busy? is it fair to punish (because that's what it is, don't pretend like playing on books and soda cans is fine while there is perfectly good terrain to be used) those who don't want to paint with those who don't have the time or the means?
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Big Rob



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PostSubject: Re: just a thought for people who field NON painted armies   Mon May 10, 2010 3:27 am

The truly lazy just don't paint.the truly busy have one or more colors on their army as a work in progress.But no one has answered the question of would they play in a tournament with unpainted tables and terrain?As for the quality question,No it has no factor in the quality of the terrain.Like I said the truly busy have one color or more as they make time to play/paint.so if now its a topic of "is it fair to punish" why should the truly busy and those who paint their armies to the best if their ability weather its 2 sloppy colors or golden demon level,be punished by those who are just plain lazy?
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