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 Warmachine Tournament

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avatar8481



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PostSubject: Warmachine Tournament   Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:48 am

the big Gunz guys look like they're having a Warmachine Tourney this month:

By their own admission a strange and non-standard format, but could be cool.

One question though, are the scenarios out of Prime MkII or SR2010?

Quote :
The 'As yet UnNamed Gaming Club" and Showcase Comics presents:

The WarmaHoards Entropy Tournament

Saturday February 20th at Showcase Comics Granite Run Gaming Bunker.
$10 Entry fee, No painting requirement however there will be an award for best painted army.
Games starting at 10:30 AM, please be there to register at 10.
4 rounds, 2 will be scenarios and 2 will be straight up Caster Kill.


Army Composition. (AKA The fun part)
One 50pt army list, (any valid WM MKII army or most recent Hoards MKII rules)
after each game any named character or unique jack or warbeast in your list that was killed during the game must be replaced with another model! You can not repeat the use of any character who was killed in any of your later games. You can replace a Normal caster with the Epic level caster but you may not replace an Epic with a non epic version. THE REST OF YOUR LIST REMAINS THE SAME.

This means if your caster is killed, you have to use a different caster for the next round and can not use the killed caster again in the tournament. If you use a normal caster you can replace then with the epic version of that caster, however if the epic version of a caster is killed you can no longer use the epic or regular version of that caster. If any other type of character model or unique jack/warbeast is killed it may not be used in your army again for the rest of the tournament. If you have a unit with a character leader (Croe’s cut throats, or Boomhowlers for example) and the character is killed, you must still field the unit but without the character leader. (simply treat the character model at a grunt in the unit, any bonus/additional ability the character added are lost and the unit fights with the normal abilities they would retain after the loss of the character)

The addition of a new caster or warlock will obviously have an effect on the points you can field in terms of the bonus points for jacks and beasts, so if you need to drop or add to the army based upon these changes, however you are now allowed to drop entire units/models for the purpose of freeing up points for an entirely new units/model. The idea is to keep the same 50pt army and replace the models that are killed.

You must submit your initial list at the start of the tournament, (sheets to write it out will be provided) and you must document any lost and replaced models on the list, it will be your opponents responsibility to verify your list before each game.

ONE LAST THING TO KEEP IN MIND ABOUT THIS EVENT: It is one of Tim Nash’s crazy made up tournaments and thus I ask you attend with a attitude to have fun at a unique event instead of a really serious competitive event. (We will have one of those next month if you’re interested)


Last edited by avatar8481 on Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Baneon

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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Mon Feb 01, 2010 1:29 pm

Wow 50pts is huge...your looking at 56pts with most warcasters due to the free Warjack points. The restrictions look interesting, seems to be a bit of Ironman with a twist. Would need allot of faction warcasters in your model collection to make it work right as caster kill is still very popular.
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Mon Feb 01, 2010 5:57 pm

Yeah, and most lists don't really work well cross caster. However, I think most tournaments are going to be between 35-50 points. Hardcore almost certainly will be 50. Means I have to buy more infantry.

Also, character jacks are so overpowered that it'll be funny to see people lose them in the first round. Oh, you brought avatar/deathjack...well now not so much.

Two lists I was toying with, both of which would require that I buy new models:

eKroess (6)
Vanquisher 8
Vanquisher 8
Full Bastions 8
Full Bastions 8
Knights Exemplar 5
Knights Exemplar 5
Knights Exemplar 5
Vassal 2
Vassal 2
Covenant 2
Max Choir 3

50 points exactly

and then another:

eFeora (6)
Vanq 8
Vanq 8
Redeemer 6
Full Cleansers 8
Full Cleansers 8
Full TFG w/ UA 9
Vassal 2
Vassal 2
Full Choir 3
Covenant 2

Obviously there's a way to combine them that sort of splits the difference. the TFG and redeemer wouldn't be bad in the kreoss list, and I don't think any list suffers from haveing 15 more weapon masters in it.
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Jonny

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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Mon Feb 01, 2010 7:18 pm

I would of considered playing in this tournament, but the rules for it seem to ridiculous for my liking.

Avatar, I am sort of puzzled by your eFeora list. Firstly, aren't TFG w/ UA 8pts? Or did they go up in the final rules, but I didn't think they did. Secondly, you seem to have almost nothing but anti-infantry. The Redeemer seems unnecessary due to the two Vanqs, with two Vassals. Then on top of that you have the two full units of Cleansers. The TFG can even serve as anti infantry too. I'm guessing the Redeemer is there because it is the best thing to use Feora's bond on, but you don't necessarily need to use the bond. Also, with the new formation rules, units are able to spread out more, which means that it would be better to have fewer, larger blast templates, rather than multiple, smaller ones. With the two Vanqs being the only real anti-jack models, that could serve as a problem. Escort does at least make up for the extreme lack of a decent melee threat range on them, but even with that, other melee heavies will have a close or better threat range. The Avatar has a slightly longer threat range, and the Reckoner has the same, but also has access to Mobility. That's just the Menoth jacks. Khador jacks can be just as fast with boundless charge, and can be even further with reach, or Tow, or pVlad's feat. I don't quite know how well this list actually works out, it might actually be fine, but it looks like it could have a lot of trouble with a jack heavy list. Just some things to think about.
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:53 pm

true, they're both completely one dimensional.

The vanqs are actually not that bad in combat, a thresher P+S 18 chain weapon. admitted no reach, which sucks.

As you know, my ekreoss list from last week had Avatar and templar. I'd run Avatar as an auto-include except for the strange scenario where he won't really last beyond the first round given how I use him.

eKreoss has no trouble with jack heavy, I think, as there are more weapon masters than you can kill in one turn, and they come back and kill you the next turn (especially under his feat.)

eFeora clearly has a harder time, but if you ignite the vanq you need to on the right turn you can get P+S 20 (not shabby).

if you lost the redeemer, the point out of the TFG and went to a min choir you could take a reckoner, which isn't too bad under her bond either.
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Jonny

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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:32 pm

Well the problem with thresher on the Vanq is that thresher is a generally anti-infantry attack, which at that point you don't usually need a high pow attack. Also, due to the lack of reach, the actual gun will most always do more damage. Also with the Vanq, you need both the battle hymn and ignite to get them up to that POW 20. I'm not saying that Vanqs are bad in combat, its just that combat is their secondary role. I think that the list might benefit from dropping either the Redeemer, one of the units of Cleansers, or both in favor of a model/unit who's primary job is jack hunting. There's a reason I take a Crusader in ever list, it mainly has to do with the fact that its a POW 18 heavy for 6pts Smile Although I would think that a Templar would be pretty good too, only POW 17 right? But it makes up for it with the shield and reach, and whatever that other rule it has that makes it move faster (beat back I think). Templar under escort means a 11" threat range heavy with POW 21 Very Happy
The Reckoner works fine too, sacrificing the shield for one more inch of pure threat range Smile I'm not sure on dropping the choir to min though, 4 choir for 3 heavies could end up bad if you face a lot of AOE or template attacks.

One dimensional lists don't work quite as well in Warmachine as they do in Warhmammer (ex. Scooters Fantasy 'Ard Boyz list), so you need to be a little more well rounded, or you need an army that doesn't die. 20 Cleansers aren't exactly what I would call resilient Razz so I think you need to go the well rounded route Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Mon Feb 01, 2010 11:06 pm

bah! I know you're right, but part of what makes WM fun is just pulling %$@@ off the shelf and saying, that's what I'm running and have it not totally suck (like the legion list I played against you last week...btw, I realized I was using slipstream wrong...it's not tow).

I frankly think 50 pts is too big for the system, but I've never played a game at that level, just theoryhammer it seems too big.

If it wasn't for the tournament rules I'd run this at 50:

eFeora -6
Avatar 11
Vanq 8
Redeemer 6
Min Cleansers 5
Max Bastions 8
KE 5
Vassal 2
Vassal 2
Min Choir 2
Convenant 2
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Tue Feb 02, 2010 3:04 pm

I'm pretty sure I did ToM's feat wrong too, I think I just get the incorporeal on my turn, so we're both cheaters Very Happy

But anyways, I'm still not a fan of the Redeemer, but if it works out for you then go right ahead, and your list also doesn't have enough TFG, they are the like awesome-sauce. In fact, they are probably the closest thing I have to an auto-include, but if they don't fit in your list, that's fine. Jacks, KE, and support looks solid, I don't know how well cleansers actually preform to say anything on them, and I've never had good experiences with Bastions, but maybe that's just because I'm bad at this game :/
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:28 pm

0.0

Major WM talk, on these forums? I'm in shock!

Now if it was only Cryx speack instead of those dirty Menoth.
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Tue Feb 02, 2010 8:55 pm

Hellz yeah there's major WM talk on these forums Very Happy Eventually hopefully we'll have our own sub-forum, instead of having to share it with GW specialist games. Oh, and Cryx is weak-sauce.
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:20 am

except eDenny, who auto-wins any ground control scenario under the new scoring system for SR2010.
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:59 am

How's that? I'm pretty sure you can't win if I kill your caster Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Wed Feb 03, 2010 11:57 am

not taken I'll send a pm to lincoln New topic post for war machien

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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Wed Feb 03, 2010 2:17 pm

for resurgance for example.

edenny can keep you from moving for 2 whole scoring rounds (her turn and your turn) and get 6 scenario points by the end of turn 3. she'd only need one more to win (and she'd have gotten that on the bottom of turn 2. relatively few casters can alpha strike assassinate by turn 3, particularly in a competitive tournament.

not saying there aren't solutions, but it's not pretty. You basically need to get into the control zones as soon as possible and sit there and hope she can't kill you/slam you out to get those points.
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Wed Feb 03, 2010 9:07 pm

Hmm. Her feat does seem pretty BS, like Gorten's, but different. I would definitely think AD troops would be a great help here, such as Idrians, since they would probably be on the zone in the first turn or so, then go to ground to make them near invincible to anything except sprays and melee (which will @#%$ their @#$! up). Errant's could also possible will good to, with their ability to choose your casualties, which if done correctly, could minimize loses and keep them alive for a turn or two. Other than that the only thing you could do is just try to get in the zones before she feats, which may or may not be possible. I could see some Viligants being pretty good too. Run them up 10, 12 with eFeora, or 14 with Amon, and just have them sit there. The only other thing I can think of it to make it so she would have to over-extend herself to hit your models with her feat before you can get on the zone, and then have a lot of shooting to blow the crap out of her for going out further that she should of. But then of course she can just go incorporeal, so we would need magical shots to take care of her.
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:31 am

Weak-sauce my foot yall are just jealous we get the dead sexy bloat thrall...okay maybe not.

And here I was going with Denne in MK2 because Goreshade got his nutz cut off in the new rules. Didnt' realize there was such hate from Denne already.

Think my 35 list was looking at:

Denne
Nightmare
3 x Defilers
Scarlock
Pistol Wraith
Full Mechanithralls with Brute
Half Satyx with Sea Witch
half Bane Knights
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:33 am

Not hate, just rock-paper-scissors, like WM should be.

I've actually never played cryx, and I'd like to get a game in, when/where do you play Baneon?
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Thu Feb 04, 2010 10:35 am

Haven't managed a game in a very long time (Horde release party) as my wife works during the day on Sunday's. But usually up at GCS
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PostSubject: Re: Warmachine Tournament   Thu Feb 04, 2010 12:43 pm

well, there's now a pretty regular group on tuesday nights too, and friday nights (though I'm not usually there).
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