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 Help tweaking my Crimson Fists

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panewman83



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-07-19
Location : Catonsville

PostSubject: Help tweaking my Crimson Fists   Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 am

I got a few games in this weakend (yes, 'weak'end... lol), namely against Tim's Deathwing and Dameon's SM Thunderfire Cannon/Bikes list. Both made chump meat out of Pedro-and-friends. Below is my current list. Below that is the long list of problems I've come across against both Tim, Dameon, and multiple other players while using this list. Below that is a new list.

Current list - 2000pts :

HQ:

175 - Pedro Cantor

100 - Librarian

TROOPS:

265 - 10 Man Tactical, meltagun, multimelta, powerfist, drop pod w/ deathwind missile launcher & locator beacon

265 - 10 Man Tactical, meltagun, multimelta, powerfist, drop pod w/ deathwind missile launcher & locator beacon

265 - 10 Man Tactical, meltagun, multimelta, powerfist, drop pod w/ deathwind missile launcher & locator beacon

ELITES:

360 - 10 Sternguard Veterans, powerfist, 2 plasma guns, drop pod w/ deathwind missile launcher & locator beacon

265 - Venerable Dreadnought, assault cannon, heavy flamer, extra armor, drop pod w/ deathwind missile launcher & locator beacon

FAST ATTACK:

305 - 8 Vanguard Veterans w/ jump packs, 1 pair of lightning claws, 1 powerfist


Here are the issues I've noticed:

- My vanguard are way to expensive, especially in noting how much of a one-trick-pony they are, plus for them to be effective they have to arrive exactly when I need them to, which is especially rare...

- Since the Vanguard gotta go, so do the locator beacons. The Vanguard were the whole reason for the beacons in the first place.

- Deathwind Missile Launchers are useless! They cant fire the turn they arrive. There is usually nothing in range by the time they can (or they've been wrecked or suffered a weapon destroyed).

- The Ven Dread sticks out like a sore thumb. There is no other armor on this list that poses even close to the threat of the venerable, and so he promptly gets lit up. If I'm going to use a dread then i need more armor on the table to take off some of the heat.

- Sternguard are about 2x more effective then tactical marines, especially since they are scoring units as Crimson Fists.

- The list as a whole is way to slow. Deploying wherever I want is great, but once I'm there, I'm there. I need some mobility.

- The list lacks any kind of long range firepower. There is always a powerful enemy model out of range of everything I have on the table.

- The more you deepstrike, the more likely it is important units aren't on the table when you need them.

And so...


The New List - 2000pts :

HQ:

175 - Pedro

100 - Librarian

TROOPS:

275 - 10 Tactical Marines, meltagun, missile launcher, powerfist, Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannon

275 - 10 Tactical Marines, meltagun, missile launcher, powerfist, Razorback w/ Twin-Linked Lascannon

ELITES:

330 - 10 Sternguard, powerfist, 2 plasmaguns, drop pod

300 - 10 Sternguard, lightning claw, drop pod

150 - Dreadnought, multimelta, heavy flamer, drop pod

FAST ATTACK:

270 - 3 Landspeeders, 3 Typhoon Missile Launchers, 3 heavy bolters

HEAVY SUPPORT:

120 - Predator, autocannon, lascannon sponsons


I'm looking for feedback from anyone and everyone. What do you think of my proposed changes, and what sort of issues should I expect to run into with this new list?
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Gramps



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-01-25
Age : 33
Location : White Marsh, MD

PostSubject: Re: Help tweaking my Crimson Fists   Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:35 am

Well, you are not a close combat army, but with Pedro and 2 sternguard having 3 base attacks (4 on the charge), you can certainly threaten some stuff. Just remember it is ok to deploy on the field instead of in the drop pods if facing a dedicated close combat army. Smile

I'd love to see the Dread and 1 speeder dropped for a TH/SS unit of terminators. If near Pedro they have 3 attacks base. Smile Though that would ruin the desire to have both Sternguard come in on turn 1.
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Casie.Gibis



Posts : 23
Join date : 2009-08-17
Age : 25

PostSubject: Re: Help tweaking my Crimson Fists   Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:39 am

I would have to say go in the same direction with the sternguard as you did with the tactical marines with the razorbacks. Unfortunately from personal experience anything in a drop pod that drops gets saturated in fire and destroyed or bogged down in close combat. They are to expensive to be a shock and awe tool and one trick pony.

Also switching from Missle launchers to Lascannons would be good to and create a bigger threat while also putting out more anti-tank.

As for the dread experiment with two TL Autocannons and use as ranged support and does very well against troop transports.
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panewman83



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-07-19
Location : Catonsville

PostSubject: Re: Help tweaking my Crimson Fists   Tue Jul 26, 2011 12:50 pm

@ Tim - Your army definitely made me consider TT/SS Termies, but your point about one sternguard being put in reserves was already on my mind.

@ Casie.Gibbs - I have to say that you're right re: the drop pods... Unfortunately I've put so much money, time, and effort on my pods that I don't think I could stand cutting them out altogether right now. I'm committed to at least 3 pods. If I'm going to buy the dread a drop pod, then it only makes sense to have the chance for heavy flamer against light infantry or 2D6 armor pen the turn it arrives.

Re: the Sternguard, I'm thinking of dropping them in a more defensive role in this list. With 3 pods, both sternguard can show up first turn, then run to secure cover and objectives, and not necessarily be all up in the enemy's grill right away.

Re: the Lascannons, they would add 60pts(?) to the list (off the top of my head, dont have the codex on me), plus it would remove the versatility of frag/krak which will be nice to have vs horde armies. If you were to swap missile launchers with las, what would you cut to make room?
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Gramps



Posts : 212
Join date : 2010-01-25
Age : 33
Location : White Marsh, MD

PostSubject: Re: Help tweaking my Crimson Fists   Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:03 pm

Could change out the HB for Multi-meltas on the speeders. Gives a little more mobile anti-tank punch.
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panewman83



Posts : 26
Join date : 2011-07-19
Location : Catonsville

PostSubject: Re: Help tweaking my Crimson Fists   Tue Jul 26, 2011 2:29 pm

@ Gramps - The new list has 14 long range tank killing shots, 15 if you count the multimelta from the dread coming down in the drop pod. I thought about going multimelta on the speeders, but I thought the heavy bolters would be useful for infantry/horde armies as well as light vehicles, especially since you can move 12 and still fire both weapons (as frag missiles could as defensive weapons).

I guess I'm looking for someone to validate my logic in making the list, or tell me why they think it will fail.
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